How to Use Audio Lessons in Your Course to Engage Students and Improve Learning

Listen to Yehoshua Zlotogorski, co-founder of Alpe talk about how to use audio lessons and audio courses in your teaching to break up your lecture on the "Lecture Breakers Podcast":

Full transcript


The lecture breakers podcast is the place where college professors, instructors to educators share innovative teaching strategies, practical ideas, and teaching tips. To help you break up your lecture, energize your classroom, increase student engagement and improve learning. Here's your host, dr. Barbie Honeycutt.

Hey everybody on Barbie cut and welcome to episode number 62 of the lecture breakers podcast. This is the place where we talk about how to break up your lecture, increase student engagement and improve learning. And on today's episode, we are talking about the power of audio in learning, especially when an audio lesson or an audio course is intentionally designed based on what we know about how people learn.

Our guest today is Joshua is a lot of Gorski and he's on a mission to encourage us to challenge the framework that says we have to learn in one place. At one time, he actually has created an app called out a L P E. Which allows educators to create audio lessons and to integrate those as part of their courses.

Now I've been taking one of these audio courses. I'm focused on creativity because I really wanted to get a feel for how this whole thing works. And I have to say that I was really intrigued about this whole process and it. Piqued my interest, as I think about the courses that I teach and especially the faculty development workshops that I facilitate.

And then of course, as a podcaster, I'm very interested in the role. Audio can play in helping people learn something new, or just get inspired to take action. Now, in this episode, Joshua explains that audio superpower is removing friction from learning. You can listen anywhere, any time you can listen while walking your dog while doing a workout while doing the dishes or doing the laundry.

Um, you know, so we talk about the different ways you can think about integrating audio lessons into your courses. And so as you listen, I want you to be open-minded and think creatively about your course and where an audio lesson just might fit in, and also be sure to check out the output. App. That's A L P E.

So you can experience this approach to audio courses as a learner. All right, let's get to it. All right.


Hey Joshua. Thank you so much for coming on the show. It is so great to have you here. Well, this is, this is great. I'm really looking forward to having this conversation with you, because I think what you're doing is really innovative.

And I think there's definitely a space for it and professional development and higher education. So, um, so like I say, I'm, I'm really looking forward to it, but before we jump into our conversation, um, tell us a little bit about, you know, what you do and what you teach and, and any, you know, teaching experience or anything like that you want to share.

Yehoshua: Sure. Sure. So I think I'm a little bit different from most of, most of the people you've interviewed on the podcast in the sense that I don't come at this from a traditional teaching background, I actually I've, I've never taught in higher education, barring a short stint as a teaching assistant. Um, But really I come at this mainly from my own experience as a student, as an autodidact, which is really what brought me to, to found out audio, which is, which is what I do.

I'm an audio, it's an audio education platform that lets people master topics from a to Z when they are on the go. Right? So at the time that you really have to study when you're commuting, when you're at the gym, uh, times that you wouldn't normally associate with. Learning in depth. Um, that's really what we're focusing on.

That's what we're doing. And I come at this just because I found myself spending a lot of time commuting. Um, I used to commute an hour and a half to, and from work each day. And the second you leave university, right? You start your, your big person's job. The time that you have for yourself in the day shrinks down dramatically.

And I think anyone who is a young parent can really, really appreciate that. And the time I had was when I was commuting and that was the time I wanted to learn new things. And that was the time I actually had to upscale because I had just started a new job at a startup.

And so I had to be learning these new topics.

And so I was, you know, I was looking for things to learn during my commute. And I tried everything. I tried Coursera. I tried you to me. I tried YouTube podcasts, audio books. Um, I've been a long time user of Khan Academy. And really none of them helped me learn topics in depth. While I was driving while I was commuting.

And that's what got me sort of going down the teaching and learning rabbit hole. I started researching why isn't there something out there, why can't solve, why can't something solve this problem for me. And the more I learned about how we learn, how our brain is wired for re for memory, the more I came to this conclusion that if we actually changed the way we think about learning. We changed this framework that we have from learning in one place at one time, which is really how we've been learning for thousands of years. Right? You used to come to the sages, used to come to the teacher and sit in front of them and learn from them.

And in a lot of ways, we still do that. Today. You go to a class, you go to a, if you go to a professor, if we change that it's actually learning sort of when you're mobile, There are a lot of benefits that can accrue from doing that. There's also a give and take for sure, but there's a lot of benefits and we should really be thinking about changing the way we think about learning.

So that's how I've come into this world. So I really like that you're coming at it from sort of a student or learners perspective. Um, I think that makes us very unique. And it's also outside of that formal structure of higher education, which I think gives you a little more, um, I don't know, freedom, flexibility, creativity, you know, there's a lot, a lot that we can, we can do with this.

And so, so, you know, you mentioned a few things about, you know, stepping into the audio space. I don't really know what to call it. Audio education, I guess we don't. We call it audio courses. I'm fine. I think, I think the jury's out. I thought what, what, what this movie called, right. Interesting. You know, and I can relate to this.

Dr. Barbi: I found myself nodding as you started to talk about some of the benefits and I want to dig into this a little more, you know, I'm thinking through, you know, zoom, fatigue, we are all feeling it. It's like, Oh, I have to log on and we'll do this screen again, you know? And then, and then. Uh, I really responded to, when you're talking about your parents, especially of young children, you know, I do a lot of my, I do all of my podcasts right now.

We're not commuting, but I do them all on doing mundane chores.

Yehoshua: Right. So I'm doing laundry and I'm doing dishes, I'm cooking dinner. Uh I'll. I'll tell you, I'll tell you my dirty secret at home, which is I stack dishes until I have enough that I can listen to a podcast or I'm eyewash. That is what I, that is my dirty kitchen secret.

Dr. Barbi: Well, no, that's great. And I mean, I think though that the timing is right. Is right for this, because right now we realize that there's lots of different ways we can learn. We don't have to stick to those traditional models. We can think outside the box here or thing inside the box, as we're going to talk about one of the, one of the courses that I'm taking with you right now, and you know, this might be the time to rethink.

Again, the way we are doing education. And so, um, that's why I wanted to have you on the show. Um, you know, we have talked before this, just on the phone, so I could learn a little more about what you do and I've just been really impressed. And so, um, today I want to spend some time just digging into this idea of audio courses and, or.

Audio lessons so that the listeners can maybe take a piece of that and try it in their courses. You know, they might not be ready to design an entire audio course, which I don't know, some of them might be, but some people might be really open to doing an audio lesson or two. And we can think about what that might look like, but, you know, so, so let's start there.

So if I'm a professor educator instructional designer, and I'm thinking about adding any type of audio lesson or audio content to my course, what do you think are some of the advantages of that over what I traditionally do, which is like you said that. Sage on the stage or, um, being that presenter in zoom audio superpower is really, it comes down to convenience and removing friction from learning.

Yehoshua: Right. And if you think about what the biggest technology shifts that have happened over the past decade or two decades, They've all been about removing friction from our daily lives, right? Uber door dash, what do they remove? Their moves, friction and getting, you know, some delivery or ordering a taxi or, um, you know, their platforms today for investing smarter, which are all about removing friction.

And friction sounds like a small thing, but really it's what prevents us from creating good habits. And so audio's superpower is removing that friction because it's easy, it's convenient. It goes with you throughout your day, in those times when you have nothing else to do so it helps you reclaim that lost time.

And I think that's a really, really, really powerful, and it's often underestimated because over the past 20 years, we've seen the rise of video and as a platform in a, in an unprecedented way, and I am a huge reader. So I'm huge on visuals and using my eyes. And I like to see everything that I can see and play around it.

And videos are great for a reason. But because of this rise of YouTube and things like that, we've really lost sight of the benefits of just letting our eyes rest and listening to stories. And not only listening to stories, but really audio forces you to come up with a clear and concise message. Because just like, you know, you mentioned you're taking the creative thinking class, a core tenant in creative thinking is having constraints, constraints, force you to be creative.

And when you remove the video, um, and actually, you know, I'll challenge everyone. Who's listening to try this for their next lesson. Ditch your slides, maybe not in real time in advance. Get your slides. And think about how are you conveying what you want to convey with your words? Is it clear? Are your students understanding it?

Are you telling them a clear enough message that even without your slides, they are understanding what you want to say and that they will remember it. Um, and most, most of the time the answer is no, because we rely on visuals as a crutch. The power of audio is really, it's an it's convenience and it's storytelling power.

And to be honest, I am not a, uh, I'm not talking about only audio, right. I love to read. And I just think it's it's fits into our daily life very well. Um, and it doesn't work for everything. I wouldn't teach math with audio. I wouldn't teach computer science with audio. But I think there are many, many things that we can teach.

We should be teaching. And you mentioned zoom fatigue, which I'm feeling every single day over the past few months. Um, but the, the power for audio is to let people learn in a time and place of their choosing. You can review material after you've listened to the lecture, you can come better prepared to the lecture because you've listened to it in advance. Right?

I think a lot of people who listen to this podcast, they're listening to this podcast while they're doing other things, and then they apply it in their lives and their teaching in whatever way to do it. And that's actually one of the big advantages of audio or video and audio based course. I don't think it's a, it's a complete supplementary for a real course.

I don't think it replaces the dialogue between an expert in the field and a novice in the field. Um, but it really helps with the knowledge acquisition part of learning. Right. If you think about learning, you can, you know, we tend to think about it an hour into it. Right. Um, I've heard other strange words for more, but you have the knowledge acquisition layer, and then you have the practical application layer.

And so in the practical application layer, you really need someone who's hands on. Who's been there, who's done that. Who can answer your specific questions. And for that, I think audio isn't the greatest solution at the moment, but when it comes to the knowledge acquisition layer, right, you have to learn all of this information just to come and play at the table for that audio is great.

And we've seen some great uptake in professors who are using it as. Preparatory assigned, listening on the way to class.

Dr. Barbi: So I think that's a really important part, you know, as, as you were talking, I was kind of visualizing, um, like Bloom's taxonomy or other types of frameworks where you're right. There's that foundational knowledge that students gain through reading or listening to a podcast or in this case, it could be an audio lesson.

There could be a lot of things that happen there as sort of that. That pre-work that foundational work. And then when you are with your students together in the same space, or they're working together, that that becomes sort of that, that higher tier of blooms, where they are doing the application and the analysis and the creation.

And that's sort of the foundation I've built my flip classroom model alone, which I've done for the last decade, but, uh, only in the last couple of years, have I started talking about the role of audio and podcasts, for example, in this foundational. Type of knowledge. And so, um, you know, well, that's one of my questions for you is how are audio lessons and audio courses different than podcasts?

Yehoshua: And I think that's really important. So I've been in the podcast space. I'm still a baby just for a year. Um, but sadly, you've got, you've got it going. You've got a lot of, you know, highly engaged listeners I'll call, right? They are. And so when I was going through your, your work and what you've been doing, I'm thinking, okay, I need to see the differences now between podcasts and audio lessons or audio courses.

So can you explain a little bit of the difference between the two. Yeah. So I'm actually going to put you on the spot. Um, and before I give sort of our thesis, I'm going to ask you as a producer, a podcast, and as someone who's listened to our creative thinking course, Hey, have you even noticed the difference?

Dr. Barbi: first of all, I think that podcasts, at least the way they're traditionally done, not like a series or limited edition or anything like that, um, are very disconnected. Usually there is a theme. Um, so like in, in my podcast all about, you know, breaking up lectures, teaching, but.

When I was listening to the audio lessons in the, in the course, they are structured to build on each other and to move me from one place to another, from point a to point B. Now, while I can do that in a little, you know, 30 minute podcast episode, I can give you a strategy or talk about how something might transform your teaching.

It's not the same, um, because this was more sustained over time and it was deeper. And I was really getting more of the, I keep coming back to depth, the depth of the, of the material. And then the second one, um, what was different? I don't know if this is a pro or a con, but as I was listening, it's very, I don't know what the word is.

More formal than I think a podcast is where most podcasts are not scripted. They are, you know, yeah. We have talking points or guiding questions, but it's still more like a, a conversation between two or three, you know, Colleagues. Whereas when I was listening to the audio course, I felt like it is prescriptive and I'm, I'm reading up someone and they're not reading to me, but it was more formal if that makes any sense.

Yehoshua: Yeah. Yeah. I think you touched on, on most, most of the differences, right? I think podcasts are therefore discovery there for discovery of new topics, new ideas. They're for enjoyments they're for stories, personal stories. And that is, that is the traditional format. And most of the podcasts you'll find out there.

Um, fall into that genre and when they were, where they fall short in, you know, in in-depth learning, um, is really taking you on that journey from a to Z. Right? I was going to say, the other piece of this is there's no assessment and podcasts. And I was getting, I was starting to, I'm gonna let you talk about your platform, but you know, you have built it in a way where I was able to recall what I had learned, assess what I had learned in the lesson.

So that's very different than podcasts. That's that doesn't exist in podcasting, but go ahead. Sorry. Yeah. So that's, I think that's a really, really important point, um, that I'll just go with, because you mentioned it, which is for learning to be real, it has to be active. Um, and one of the biggest downsides in podcasts is that they are they're passive.

And if you want to take part in it actively, you kind of have to stop on the side and take notes and make flashcards for yourself later. But we actually do all of that in our platform. Right. So. We S we have the summary for you. We'll ask you questions. Um, you know, we have, uh, space repetition functions so that you can review things after three days, 10 days a month, two months, four months.

and it's really about building an active learning environment that forces students to, to use recall, right? To use these, these facts that we know, improve memory. Um, so that's definitely one part of it. I'd say the other part of it that you mentioned in terms of how it's structured, right? It's, it's less flowy. it is more structured because we want to bring a student from point a to point B to point Z. Right? We need to take them through that journey sometimes. Not all of that information is going to be fun and enjoyable. But that, that is part of what makes a course, of course, rather than specific interviews.

And so an audio course has really built all around that. It's built about mimicking of course, but doing it in a mainly audio format. And that goes into, you know, what makes good audio lessons. Um, but what makes good audio courses is really repetition and making sure that we're building chunks of information appropriately through time.

One of the difficulties in audio. Is that if you get lost, you're lost, right? You have no slides to refer. When you're reading a book, you can go back and scan the line again and again. But when you're, when you're lost an audio, there's really no way to know. Um, you can never go back. It's much more complicated.

And so audio of course, have to make sure that the chunks of knowledge that students need to acquire to move on to the next topic. Are really, really well-built and sunk into their mind so that when it gets to the next lesson, they don't feel overloaded. And that's a key concept in our, in our audio courses.

And I, I completely agree. Now I'm not I'm nodding because the whole idea, the scaffolding was very clear to me, how I was coming in. I was being introduced to a concept. Then I was introduced to a story. The storytelling potential here is amazing to me. Um, that's what really stuck. And then, you know, I'm thinking about how do I apply this to my courses?

How do I break this up in a way where I'm chunking it, like you say, and scaffolding that and making it well organized so that when students complete these three lessons or whatever, it might be that now they're ready to do the, like you said, that the act of peace, um, The, the application of it or that analysis of it, or comparing it to whatever that may be.

So let's dig down and talk about a lesson, a single lesson, you know, um, the lessons that I have been working through have been short. They're not long audio. I mean, even a podcast for 30 minutes. Seemed like it was too long for this type of format. I liked it. They were shorter, you know, 10 minutes, three minutes, four minutes.

Um, so let's talk a little bit about the actual structure of the lesson itself. What do you think are some good qualities or characteristics? If somebody wanted to try to do an audio lesson, what should they be thinking about when they put an put it together? Yeah. So, Hey, before I go into it, we actually, um, we have a blog on our website.

So if you forget anything, you can go read it. It's on how to write good audio lessons. What it comes down to is. Kind of using the best practices in podcasting and in narrative podcasting. Right. How to tell stories and marrying that together with cognitive, cognitive science, and then how to teach properly.

Right. And some of the podcasting and storytelling side. What makes a good audio lesson is make it interesting. You have to tell people a story they have to, they have to remember what you're going to tell them. And what makes people remember things is it has to mean something to them. Right? Daniel Willingham who's was written, you know why students don't like school, which is, I think it's a phenomenal book and it's actually a mandatory reading for anyone who's at Al um, he has this line that I love where he says memory is the residue of thought.

Right? And so when you're thinking about something, that's where you're laying the groundwork. For remembering it and stories do that in such a phenomenal way. And so most of our lessons we'll start off with a story or we'll pepper, a story throughout the lesson, and that's a key tenant because it has to be engaging and it has to be interesting.

The second part of what makes a good audio lesson is really how do you teach in audio? And there's a heavy dose of how do you teach in general? Um, like the chunking that we just mentioned, but in audio, it's even more challenging because people get lost easily. And the rabbi at my parents really used to say, you know, when he gets up to give a sermon He tells the audience, he tells them what he's going to tell them. Then he tells them, and then he tells him what he told them. You have to do that. You have to lay out this clear mental map of where are we now? Where are we going? What will you discover along the way? Why should you care? Right.

And then throughout that entire lesson, we'll pepper that in and we call them signposts. We were just here. We just learned about this concept. Now we're going to see how that concept relates to the next concept. This is where we were, and this is where we're going. It comes, you know, you mentioned the length we aim for, I'd say 18 minutes of our average length and it's shorter than your podcast because you're right.

It's cognitively more heavy. Then a podcast. Right. And we really want to make sure that those chunks sink in. Right. And then at the end of each lesson, we add in a little quiz that forces students to recall that information often, this happens to me when I'm listening to a podcast, I have this illusion of competency.

I have this illusion of, Oh, I was listening the whole time. I know exactly what we were talking about. And then when you asked me, I was like, I actually cannot recall a single thing that I just heard you try and pop that bubble with that little, little quiz at the end. And so those two elements, right?

The storytelling and how to layer the information properly, properly.

That's what makes a good audio lesson. I agree with you. I'm, I'm thinking about, you know, how this, um, lesson that, that I did and everybody, um, if you want to check it out, it's called introduction to inside the box thinking. And the opening story was about Steve jobs and getting rid of the, the, or changing the iPod, which at its time was, you know, like the premiere.

Piece of technology for, for storing your, your songs and to go in there and see how they rethought, how to take away the screen and to take away, you know, all these features that made the iPod, what it was like that totally stuck with me. That was a week ago. I think when I heard that story and I still am talking about the story so clearly.

Yeah. It's so clearly that stuck and it has me thinking about, okay, well, let me, let me apply this to my business. What would that look like? This process of taking things away and then a few days later, I received an automated email, um, through, I guess your system here where it's like, you know, here's what you did.

This is what we've already done and here's, what's coming up. And so I agree with you on how you structure that, where there's a story, then here's what we're going to do. We're going to do it. And then we're going to recap it. And I like that that's built in, that's not something that we see in like a podcast and it's usually not something that we see unless we formally put it into our online courses, very strategically and intentionally, we're usually just sort of jumping around.

You know, from this module to that module and, you know, going through the next to the next lesson. And so this to me felt very structured, um, in terms of getting that foundational material. And I would love to, you know, complete this course and then go talk to people about what they learn and how they're applying it.

Dr. Barbi: So I agree with you circling back to what you said right at the top of the, of our time together was, you know, um, this whole concept of. It's not, it doesn't have to stand alone that these audio lessons and these audio courses can be integrated and should be into a full, a full course experience. Um, but that whole concept of storytelling, making it concrete, being clear, being concise, all of that, I totally got. And, and I agree with you. So those of you are thinking about creating these lessons, right? Think about what kind of stories you can bring to life, just through your words, you know, and paint that picture. And I think that that can be amazing and it can really stick.

Yehoshua: Right, right. I'll I'll, I'll say people when they think about audio.

Um, I definitely got his feedback a lot when I started. Um, and the first feedback is wait, but I'm a visual learner. Right. I learned things. I need to see things. I don't understand them only, only by audio. And really when you go into the research and maybe I'll get hate mail about this, but what do you go into the research?

It's been found that, that there's actually a very, very low slash no amount of correlation between how things are presented and how people remember them. Unless you're learning something like how to read a map where you need to see the map to understand what you're even learning and the correlation between memory and what you're learning is really about meaning and repetition. And if you make what you are learning meaningful, and then you repeat it at the right times, You will remember it. And what's amazing about audio. I didn't mention this at the top in terms of what's special about audio in general, but in a lot of ways, audio is a really visual medium people. Never hear you. They never see you. I mean, but they have a really clear image of you in their mind. Right. And when you paint a picture. Um, and I'm assuming when you listen to that story about Steve jobs, your mind was busy generating an image of Steve jobs on the stage, talking to her, you know, this blacked out audience, right.

And when you're actually taking part of the imagination of the imaginary scene setting, and this comes from a tabletop role-playing games, when people imagine taking an active part in it, They are much, much more engaged right. Than just receiving a passive visual, you know, sensory input.

Dr. Barbi: I agree with you. And, you know, learning through audio has been a skill that I've had to develop over the last few years. I've always been the type to, um, you know, I need to see the video or I need to see, uh, the text or, you know, that's just how I thought I needed to learn. Um, but I would say over the last five years of really listening to podcasts, I mean, that's.

That's how I built my business was podcasts, listening to what other people have done and their stories and what I try and what works and what doesn't work. And now I listen to, you know, the educational podcast and say, okay, well, what can I do in my course? What are the takeaways here? And so it has taught me a new way of learning.

Yeah. And it's certainly stepped outside of my comfort zone to do that and learn in that way, but also to make. That, you know, to make my own podcast and step into this space as a, as another voice. And so, you know, that's another benefit is just being able to, um, receive information and process information in lots of different ways and to kind of leverage that based on, you know, whatever your situation is. And like I said, we all realized that there are disciplines and there are topics that need to have the. The visuals to go with it. So we're not discounting that. We're just saying when there's an opportunity to present something in an audio format, could this be something you can easily integrate into your course?

Yehoshua: Yeah, this is great. Yeah. And we're not dogmatic about it. I mean, just like you said, we send you a written summary so that you can review it later. Um, we're implementing, you know, flashcards and you know, all kinds of the ideas to have a wraparound effect so that yeah. You'll consume most of that content.

Through audio, because that's just, what's convenient for you, but sure. You can read the summary. You have flashcards, right? We want to add in the other census as well. We just want it to be in a time and place of your choosing when it's, when it fits into your day. I think that is such an important piece.

Dr. Barbi: I think this is going to be. You know, within all disciplines and all professions, not just higher ed, but, um, we've all learned who can work from home and how they can work from home and what can be done remotely. And a lot of us have had to shift our work schedule, like my husband, and I know he works for traditional, you know, eight to five, even though he's at home.

But that means that I had to shift my work time to be from five to 10 at night. And I sprinkled in between, you know, doing dishes and getting. Dinner ready, and that sort of thing. I've had to shift it and then work on, on the weekend more because we got a five-year-old to take care of. And so, um, that means that my learning can't always take place when there is a webinar or a course that starts at one o'clock in the afternoon, you know, I have to wait for the recording or I have to do it at midnight or whatever.

And so I think you're right, that this is really powerful that you can. You get control of when you're learning something and, and how, how you're consuming that. So, um, well, I'm curious, what kind of feedback have you been getting from, from professors who are using this as well as from the students? Yeah.

Yehoshua: So with professors really, what, what we do with professors is we partner with them to take their contents, right? So those recordings of their zoom lectures, um, and then we do the heavy lifting in terms of transforming that into an audio course. Right. We've been talking about what makes a good audio course, what makes a good audio lesson and that's really our expertise.

And so. We do that heavy lifting for them and produce the audio course in the end. And I'd say professors, have I say three main responses? Um, one of the first one is, are you crazy? Huh? One that actually has died

down much more since COVID. Um, but the second one has been, um, very grateful for something that will remove an hour and a half lecture from zoom.

I've not met many people who love lecturing on zoom and hour and a half straight to, to their students. And everyone's trying to think about. Okay. What is the right format for my students? What is the right format for me? How can I, how can I bring myself to bear in this new environment? And audio side of that has been really well received that, you know, one of the problems for, for educators is that students don't come prepared to class and when they don't come prepared to class, then you, as the educator has to set the standard of information equally.

Right. And so. You have to go into everything that they were supposed to prepare for class. And that ends up with being a dull hour and a half long frontal lecture. And so the audio segment of that has been really, it's been very well received.

Dr. Barbi: Now students, have you heard any feedback from the students who are taking these courses?

Yehoshua: Yeah, I'd say so. Some students, I appreciate the ability to learn on their own timetable and come to come to class prepared. Without having to dedicate that specific time. And, you know, they can listen to a 20 minute lesson on the way to class and come ready and come educated. So there are definitely been a lot of students who have been excited about this.

There are definitely a lot of students who have no interest whatsoever, right. They, especially now with COVID they're at home, they're not commuting, they're not going out for walks. And that's definitely something that's changed since COVID, um, we've seen. I'd say the best success with students where this actually becomes part of the syllabus and then they have to do it.

And at the end of the day, they appreciate coming to class prepared because the lectures themselves are so much better and they feel like they, they got value from the course. They enjoyed the lectures, the frontal lectures, the quality time with the professor because they managed to go deeper. And so that's one major feedback that we've had.

And the other has actually been with grad students. So, yes. And you know, I'm thinking of a third layer here. We have faculty, we have students, I'm also thinking in terms of faculty development or any kind of professional development where this could be a great way to step into and continue your own learning within either whatever professional development you're happened to be working on, whether that's teaching or leadership skills or presentation skills or conflict resolution or whatever.

I think those could lend themselves very well to this type of audio space. Yeah, definitely. And that's really the main, the main purpose of our platform is to take these, this excellent, um, knowledge that we have in academia from professors and make that knowledge and those courses accessible to the general public or the people who are in the workforce, who need to upscale, who need to retrain or who are just really curious and want to learn new things and don't have the time to do it.

Um, and that's the main, the main goal of ours. We help busy people learn topics in depth and gain mastery of them. Right. And those busy people are usually cause they're working right. They're working their parents. All right, whatever it is. And so the courses we have on out now, you know, creative thinking, um, principles of finance, product management, rethinking learning courses like that, where you can really gain expertise in a new area.

I think what you've created is great. And you know, where can we learn more about you and your company? Um, and, and anything you want to share with the lecture breakers audience. Yeah. So, first of all, I would just say, you know, download the app, give it a try. Um, it's called alpha audio and you can find it in the app stores, wherever ones.

Um, I'm active on Twitter, LinkedIn, you know, her stay on Twitter or just, you know, check out our website out Um, I really love to hear every kind of feedback. Um, good, bad, um, just random thoughts, you know, really feel free to reach out on

Dr. Barbi:and you're also in the lecture breakers Facebook group. So yeah, that's a great place to have a conversation and ask people what all about how they use audio. And so this is great. Well, look, Joshua, this has been a fantastic conversation. Thank you for introducing us. This idea of thinking through the role of audio and the power of audio in our courses and in our lessons.

Um, and, and I'm thinking of it in terms of faculty development. So thank you so much for, for sharing that with us today.

Yehoshua: My pleasure. Thanks for having me.

Dr. Barbi:I hope you enjoyed that conversation with Joshua and they gave you some new ideas as you think about how you might, could integrate audio into your course.

All right. I want to thank you. So much for listening and be sure to come and join us over in the lecture breakers, Facebook group, you can join 1200 other educators who are out here thinking about how to redesign their courses and new ways to break up the lecture, increased you to engagement and improve learning.

All right, thanks so much until next time. .

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